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Programmatic Job Advertising: Great stuff? Too complicated?? Works ... but time too time consuming?? Feedback wanted

  • 1.  Programmatic Job Advertising: Great stuff? Too complicated?? Works ... but time too time consuming?? Feedback wanted

    Posted 02-08-2021 12:43

    Hi All,

    I find this subject quite interesting....and opinions vary depending on whom you speak to.

    I'm hoping to gather greater insight for myself about just what those active on the ASA job board think of Programmatic Job Advertising.

    Specifically - and to be transparent - as an ex-broadcast advertising manager, I spend many years around the buying and selling of broadcast media.  To see this principle in the online job advertising business interests me greatly.  To me - it makes a lot of sense; however, it is somewhat surprising to me how many staffing firms have not yet really embraced this concept...or as is often the case...are not really even too clear on exactly what 'programmatic' job distribution advertising is really all about. 

    That said - I'm trying to poll the audience for better input.  Here is the question and possible answers:
    What are your opinions about PROGRAMMATIC JOB ADVERTISING?

    Would love to hear deep answers if you care to share; however, if you are short on time - maybe you could just answer using the number that is closest to your thoughts:

    Answer options:

    1. I have heard of programmatic job advertising - but could not articulate it's real benefits.  Have not tried it.
    2. I am aware of programmatic job advertising; however, I find it too complex or time consuming to initiate for my business.
    3. I am have not heard of programmatic job advertising.
    4. I have tried programmatic job advertising - managing it myself (or with an employee on staff) - but it didn't work well for us.
    5. I have tried programmatic job advertising through an agency - and it works well for us.
    6. I have tried programmatic job advertising myself or through an agency - and it was not worth the time and/or expense.

    Any insights you care to share again are appreciated.  Have a great day!




    ------------------------------
    Sincerely,

    Brian Bowman
    President / CEO
    LocalJobs.com, LLC
    (828) 209-1010
    brianbowman@localjobs.com
    ------------------------------
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  • 2.  RE: Programmatic Job Advertising: Great stuff? Too complicated?? Works ... but time too time consuming?? Feedback wanted

    Posted 02-09-2021 08:38
    3 - never heard of it. Now I will do a quick search on it.

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    Kimberley Keiser CSP
    Branch Manager
    Nationwide Skilled Trades
    Virginia Beach VA
    757-963-2211
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  • 3.  RE: Programmatic Job Advertising: Great stuff? Too complicated?? Works ... but time too time consuming?? Feedback wanted

    Posted 02-09-2021 08:42
    Here is my post from October of last year on the same topic:

    Posted 10-27-2020 07:02

    Great topic for discussion, Tracy. I have not worked with any clients using PandoIQ (others include Recruitics and Indeed's ClickIQ) but I'm more interested in the pros and cons surrounding recruiting automation. These tools can be a fantastic addition to your arsenal, but be sure you are clear on the objectives for using AI and you have clear expectations on the outcomes you hope to capture. 

    Advantages
    -
    You can expect a dramatic increase in qualified candidates in your funnel.
    - These tools will help you manage ad spend based on the criteria you set.
    - You will be able to better manage multiple job boards.
    - You will have access to massive amounts of data

    Disadvantages
    - You will have access to massive amounts of data. You must be prepared to monitor and analyze the data in order to take advantage of the platform.
    - In order to capitalize on the tool, you must be running a significant ($$!) amount of ads.
    - You should have someone on board who has a basic understanding of paid media.

    So while these tools can offer a significant advantage, you must be able to fully utilize them (how's your ATS coming along?!) and have clear expectations on the outcomes or they simply become a cost factor and a distraction. 



    ------------------------------
    Jay Mattern
    CEO
    TerraFirma Marketing
    South Bend IN
    (574) 213-3855
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  • 4.  RE: Programmatic Job Advertising: Great stuff? Too complicated?? Works ... but time too time consuming?? Feedback wanted

    Posted 02-09-2021 09:45
    Great input Jay.  Question however -what is the relationship between amount spent...and effectiveness?  ie, why is a $5K, $10K or 25K/month spend delivering greater efficiencies?  To me, from a programmatic perspective - ad spend should be flowing to those sources that are more efficient than others within the publisher networks (based on either CPC or CPA)....the whole notion of having access to this broad network - and it's deep data points of what types of roles, job titles, etc. work by source and location should be consistent agnostic of the total spend?  Help me understand...thanks and appreciate your insight Jay.

    ------------------------------
    Sincerely,

    Brian Bowman
    President / CEO
    LocalJobs.com, LLC
    (828) 209-1010
    brianbowman@localjobs.com
    ------------------------------

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  • 5.  RE: Programmatic Job Advertising: Great stuff? Too complicated?? Works ... but time too time consuming?? Feedback wanted

    Posted 02-09-2021 11:30
    Brian - I'm not suggesting a correlation between spend and efficiency. It's more about making a significant enough budgeted spend so that you optimize visibility and create an environment that will produce the best results from an input-to-throughput standpoint. You also need to plan to invest so as to be able to maximize job site penetration and to develop an ongoing presence or campaign. So even though you are narrowly threading the process, there's still no guarantee that candidates will respond, however, you are dramatically improving your odds.

    ------------------------------
    Jay Mattern
    CEO
    TerraFirma Marketing
    South Bend IN
    (574) 213-3855
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  • 6.  RE: Programmatic Job Advertising: Great stuff? Too complicated?? Works ... but time too time consuming?? Feedback wanted

    Posted 02-09-2021 22:46

    Hi Brian,

    Great question. Before I respond, full disclosure. My firm manages programmatic advertising services for many staffing company companies, and we have partnered with AppCast and licensed their ClickCast product as the technology we use to manage job spend. Disclosure #2, I know way less about this than Matt Lozar, our Director of Recruitment Marketing, and he may have more to add to my response.

    So does it work. Absolutely. But as you are probably aware, there are two very different types programmatic services:

    1. Programmatic as a way to access a private network of job sites.
    2. Programmatic as a way to manage spend more carefully on one or more job sites.

    The first option can help a staffing company to increase distribution of their jobs and potentially get their jobs on job boards that attract candidates who are not seeing their jobs on the major boards / aggregator sites. While this option will broaden job distribution, we frequently see that the cost per candidate / cost per application is higher from these sources than from the major job sites.

    The second option is about better managing the money a staffing firm spends on job advertising to maximize response / ROI from the sites they currently use. With this second option, you set rules to control how much you spend, when you spend, the number of applications you receive, and other variables. You can also use the software to automatically test job titles and expand searches to multiple geographic markets. In our experience, this second form of programmatic can deliver significant ROI. For example, a healthcare staffing firm in the Bay Area was able to increase their job applications 231% (379 to 876) while reducing ad spend by 6%. A light industrial company in Ohio, increased applications 161% (568 to 915) while decreasing spend by 13%.

    But the advantages of programmatic are not limited to increasing the number of applications and reducing spend. Another advantage is to avoid overspending on easier to fill jobs - essentially turning off the spend once a certain application volume is reached. By avoiding overspending, budgets can be shifted to harder to fill jobs which enables a company to get applications on more of their jobs. As an illustration of this principle, we had a client in Georgia who found that without programmatic nearly 2/3 of their jobs were receiving zero applications. After implementing programmatic, the number of jobs getting no applications dropped to 2%.
    To better understand these two programmatic options, please refer to this article: https://www.recruitmentmarketers.com/2020/10/26/programmatic-job-advertising-success-staffing-industry/

    And for those who would like an introduction to programmatic job advertising, here is an on demand webinar: https://lunchwithhaley.com/2018/08/28/understanding-programmatic-ad-buying/

    I hope this perspective is helpful.

    Regards,
    David



    ------------------------------
    David Searns
    CEO
    Haley Marketing | 888.696.2900
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  • 7.  RE: Programmatic Job Advertising: Great stuff? Too complicated?? Works ... but time too time consuming?? Feedback wanted

    Posted 02-10-2021 09:50
    All great points David!

    ------------------------------
    Sincerely,

    Brian Bowman
    President / CEO
    LocalJobs.com, LLC
    (828) 209-1010
    brianbowman@localjobs.com
    ------------------------------

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  • 8.  RE: Programmatic Job Advertising: Great stuff? Too complicated?? Works ... but time too time consuming?? Feedback wanted

    Posted 02-10-2021 08:40
    I have posted on this forum before about Programmatic Advertising because it was a total disaster for me.  It was so bad that I reported my experience with it to Talent Tech Labs for them to research it since they are the experts.   After they did, they posted a whitepaper on it.  Talent Tech Labs concluded that the spend needed to be above $100,000 or your ads would go to the "free" boards and we all know those aren't really free.   When I asked friends at the national agencies, two of them told me that the spend needed to be $250,000.  So, unless you are one of those super big guys or you hire an agency (fees there too) to constantly police them for you.  I would certianly NOT recommend it. 

    Further, I would recommend that you talk to your Monster, Careerbuilder or Indeed rep about programmatic to get the real truth.
    Thanks
    Susie

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    Susan Dietrich
    Principal
    AllTek Staffing Inc.
    Pittsburgh PA
    (412) 701-9001
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  • 9.  RE: Programmatic Job Advertising: Great stuff? Too complicated?? Works ... but time too time consuming?? Feedback wanted

    Posted 02-10-2021 09:48

    Hi Susie,

    I hope you don't mind if I respectfully disagree...

    None of the clients we work with spend anywhere near $100K a year. The examples I shared were companies spending $3,000 a month in one case and $3,500 a month in the other. We do find that you have to spend at least $2,000 / month on job advertising to get value from programmatic.

    With regard to where your jobs go, that depends on how you use programmatic. You can use programmatic to just manage your Indeed spend (or ZipRecruiter or other specific job sites). With this form of programmatic (which is the second option I noted in my earlier post), you have 100% control over where your jobs go. By setting spending rules, leveraging testing capabilities, and improving insight into your job spend, programmatic can deliver significant value without supersized ad budgets.

    I think the bottom line is that for programmatic to be effective, you need transparency about what you are buying, how it will work, and how long you should try it in order to gauge the results. Too often, that transparency is missing.

    David



    ------------------------------
    David Searns
    CEO
    Haley Marketing | 888.696.2900
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  • 10.  RE: Programmatic Job Advertising: Great stuff? Too complicated?? Works ... but time too time consuming?? Feedback wanted

    Posted 02-10-2021 10:12
    Edited by Brian Bowman 02-11-2021 12:51

    I need to disagree with you on it's value.  It's unfortunate you had a bad experience....

    Then again, this could be said for probably 50% of all businesses who spend money on advertising at large.  Half think it's a waste and the other half think works.

    That said -there is NO DOUBT that the market is / has moved into programmatic job distribution.  If it wasn't providing the majority a strong benefit - the market would not be growing so quickly.

    Conceptually - the job distribution model is no different than the old spread your marketing message around back in the days of just newspaper, radio, television.  Then it expanded to cable tv, satellite tv, and of course online digital advertising.  The point is to spread your message into multiple channels to expand your audience reach.  Some prefer a very focused media buy, .... and often that is due to limited budget.  However, the notion of using sophisticated software that can in fact spread the media buy is positive (for recruitment advertising in this case). As I see it, it  affords businesses the ability to get cost efficiencies on a CPC or CPA basis on par or improved over those who utilize just a single source board......, such as which an Indeed, LinkedIn or Careerbuilder would deliver.  It only makes sense - on a single platform - such as Indeed - you are competing for exposure...at higher and higher CPAs.  Yes, the volume is there - but not necessarily at the most efficient media buy.  Further more - you are still not reaching the non-Indeed or non-Careerbuilder market.  UNLESS, they also offer distribution jobs beyond their boards.  Then again - that WOULD make them job distribution folks :-).  You know the old saying - if you can't beat em, join em.  From what I see -Monster DOES distribute ... but to "their" network

    Monster Pay for Performance - Job Distribution

    I can see why Monster, Indeed or CareerBuilder offer some sort of distribution - and it sounds good that it's to "their" network.  But their network, is but a fraction of the bigger network out there.  Programmatic brings another level of sophistication to managing the buy that others on this thread have eloquently put forth.  My two cents from observations and conversations thus far.  Appreciate your input though and in sharing your experience Susan.



    ------------------------------
    Sincerely,

    Brian Bowman
    President / CEO
    LocalJobs.com, LLC
    (828) 209-1010
    brianbowman@localjobs.com
    ------------------------------

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  • 11.  RE: Programmatic Job Advertising: Great stuff? Too complicated?? Works ... but time too time consuming?? Feedback wanted

    Posted 02-10-2021 11:09
    Edited by Matt Lozar 02-10-2021 11:09
    Great discussion here - love the talk about programmatic advertising!

    Making the best data-driven decisions is imperative with recruitment budgets. There are a number of ways to do that, and programmatic software is an automated example to leverage technology, to eliminate wasted spend, and to improve ROI. Recruitment teams could manually perform the tasks of posting jobs, taking them down, monitoring budgets, adjusting bidding, tracking application totals, etc. But using a software platform that automates all of those areas, it gives recruiters more time to talk to the people who want to work for you. 

    In the staffing industry, with a budget of $2,000/month or higher, just about every single company has some type of wasted spend in that budget. Programmatic software can help every single company to manage their current Indeed and/or ZipRecruiter budgets more efficiently. The budget doesn't need to be on new job boards. Companies can still advertise on Indeed and/or ZipRecruiter, but leveraging the automation and technology of the programmatic software reduces/eliminates the wasted spend. The only thing that changes is a split-second in the middle where the programmatic software applies your strategy before going to the job boards. 

    Some examples of wasted spend:
    • Too many applications on jobs (I had this conversation last week with a client who had 4 jobs with 80-110 applications on those openings)
    • Too few applications on jobs (very common right now unfortunately)
    • Advertising on the wrong job boards
    • Putting the wrong amount of budget on the wrong jobs (high-priority jobs should receive the most, then medium, then low)
    • Using the wrong job titles 
    On top of the case study examples that David shared above where programmatic software helps make better data-driven decisions, here's an example of analysis that we ran this week for a trucking company. They sponsored the same exact job openings, just different compensation during the past 2-3 months:
    • $1,000 sign-on bonus and a higher wage: 106 applications
    • $1,000 sign-on bonus and a lower wage: 57 applications
    • No sign-on bonus and a lower wage: 18 applications
    Now the company has the data to make compensation decisions. Application dropoff is significant and application cost increased by 2X to 3X. The programmatic software centralized all of their recruitment budget and simplified the data collection for the analysis. 

    As for the discussion that Susie brought up about programmatic not working - that example feels like purchasing from a programmatic job board. (The best analogy I have is that a programmatic job board is a mutual fund vs. purchasing directly from Indeed/ZipRecruiter is buying a direct stock). The differentiator for a programmatic job board is its algorithm. It analyzes your job title, the geographic location of the job, and the job description. The algorithm looks at its network of job boards (thousands of local, regional, niche job boards) to determine how to get your job in front of the right person at the right time. By not buying directly from a job board, we have heard of some issues that Susie raises. I think that's the transparency point that David brought up.

    That negative experience with a programmatic job board doesn't mean that programmatic doesn't work at all. We have seen programmatic job boards work well for some companies and not work well for some companies. Application costs are higher than a quick apply on Indeed/ZipRecruiter. 

    To wrap up this long-winded post, a programmatic job board won't work for every company, but for companies spending at least $2,000/month on job boards, evaluating the benefits of using programmatic software to manage the Indeed/ZipRecruiter spend should definitely be considered. 

    Matt



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    Matt Lozar
    Director of Recruitment Marketing
    Haley Marketing Group Inc.
    Williamsville NY
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  • 12.  RE: Programmatic Job Advertising: Great stuff? Too complicated?? Works ... but time too time consuming?? Feedback wanted

    Posted 02-11-2021 10:46
    Matt & David,
    I think we agree that you do need to either "police" it yourself or use an agency like yours to "police" it for you.  I own a staffing agency and you are in the business of an ad agency, hence we see this issue from two different angles.   It's not as easy as just setting rules and walking away.  In a perfect world, you pay an agency to police it for you and your spend is down and you get more candidates.  I just don't believe a perfect world exists and when I tried it, my spend was way down.  The problem was, my candidates were way down too.  

    I emailed Talent Tech Labs to repost their whitepaper for everyone to digest the facts from the experts.
    Thanks guys and if I ever go back to programmatic, I would definitely contract with an agency like yours to do it for me! 
    Susie

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    Susan Dietrich
    Principal
    AllTek Staffing Inc.
    Pittsburgh PA
    (412) 701-9001
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